Barry Scollo | How To Go From Sport To Leadership Success

I struggled with that and I think it going back, I would have changed a couple of those situations for sure and been even stronger. But a part of me pandered to it because I wanted the funding, I wanted the coaches to have jobs, and there's a responsibility that came with that. And we became prescriptive with players that I know is not me deep down. Well, welcome, Mr. Barry Scullo, not requested just once but twice to be on the show. So I often ask the guests who next then and you were requested twice.

So here you are, which is fabulous to, to have you. I mean, you had a pretty distinguished career, you know, as a coach briefly on tour as well and then managing and directing the, the, the program at at bar for many, many years and as director of tennis there. The growth of that program, you know, across the whole board, not just performance, but also in development and everything like that has been, has been significant. And then you took the decision to step away and create a successful business for yourself.

So I'd like to, you know, just know a little bit from your perspective how, how you see how your kind of journey has gone. Oh, well, thank you, Dave. It's a real pleasure and honour to be, to be on your podcast and and part of your sort of your next adventure of what you're up to. Yeah, no. OK, Well, the, the background is for me, was born in Italy, moved to England fairly quickly, grew up around the southeast Eastbourne, Brighton way. I fell in love with tennis probably quite late, probably for, for what they say these days.

But I was really quite sort of 1415 when I really got into it. And then I was very fortunate in the, in the, in the Brighton area. Nigel Sears was, was coaching there. So between 93 and 98 I was, I was lucky enough to have Nigel Sears as my coach and good players and it was the national squad, a bit like your match point in Manchester. I was a young person in that squad. There were people like Luke Milligan, Chris Bailey, Marc Petchi dropped in from time to time there, Claire Wood. There was some significant players that played a part in British tennis and and now coaching.

So I was around some very good people in my teenage years through, in Brighton and then when that all dispersed and I finished my A levels, I, I was young and not really, you know, my parents, whilst they were hugely supportive, didn't really have a tennis background. So I moved to Italy thinking, well, that's quite a central part. So I was sort of born in Italy, then moved back there when I was 1819 and tried to play. And there were, there were a couple of good people there and I, there was a lot of tournaments and obviously you've seen the success of Italian tennis in recent years, but that model of tournaments was there when I was there from March to October, there was a lot of tournaments.

So that seemed like the smart thing to do. But I was swinging in the dark, really. And I was there for a couple of years into my early 20s, and I found myself in the final of a British tour in South Sea against Jamie Delgado. And I, there I met John Wyford. And John Wyford sort of said, oh, you know, you should try coming to the University of Bath for a scholarship. You'd be in the first team, you know, so on and so forth. And literally that was in the summer. A month or two later I found myself doing a degree at University of Bath, which was a big transition for me.

I had an ATP point in singles and double S, not a lot to write home about. I did a lot of it on my own as well after, you know, I finished in Brighton. So whilst I had my parents support, I didn't have a lot of coaching support and direction between 19 and 22. And I found myself as a later student at, at Bath and, you know, a little bit of support a good lot, a good group of like minded people, even though a lot of them for different sports. So they were, they were good, good players on the team.

We had a strong team like Ian Bates, current head of women's tennis, Stuart Rhodes and a few others. And we, we won a bit of university level stuff, which was nice. And I, I got, I really got into the studying. I didn't think I would because I wasn't a great student at school. But as I slowly matured, I found myself throwing myself into my studies and, and working quite hard and finding it very interesting, especially coaching, the theory of coaching, leadership, psychology, people development, you know, personal development, growth.

I really threw myself into that and I ended up doing a master's degree. So I stayed in Bath to 25. And then there was the LTA Academy was running alongside things. It was based in Bath, Loughborough and Queens at the time when the structure changed, so I was in the right place at the right time. There's an element of luck, but there was an element of throwing myself into absolutely every coaching opportunity, hitting opportunity, covering wherever I could get to. I I really did that. And then Simon Jones was running the LTA Academy and I became like a rookie coach, rookie hitter for for that period of time between sort of 04 and 07:00, sort of part time role and then more of a, a sort of lead coaching role within the Academy as a young coach.

And I found myself taking trips and travelling and learning very fast. And that's where I met Tito Vasquez, who was sort of, you know, I guess some sort of, I don't know, like a spiritual leader for me because he had the Latin thing from South America. He reminded me of my dad. He was very tough. He didn't beat around the Bush, he gave no quarter. A lot of people didn't like him. I just loved him. He was like my uncle, you know, And I, I learnt a lot from Tito. He was Davis Cup captain, he'd been with top players from Argentina.

He, he had a significant playing career himself. So I was, he was, he was another role model for me at the time. And even by that point of late 20s and working with Tito I, I'd already been, I'd already met some great people in tennis, my tennis family, even though a lot of them probably, you know, but I don't speak to so much anymore. I was very lucky even by that point, you know, there was Nigel Sears, Tito Vasquez, Simon Jones, people like John Higgs and Leighton Alfred who I was working with through the LTA Academy at Loughborough, Ian Hughes.

There was a lot of good people around and I was very, very, I feel myself very lucky. And in 2007, the LTA, everything changed again. And for the LTA, Cabbie went to HPC, the new model, Roger Draper came in as I believe around that time as LTACEO and I was asked to apply for the Director of Tennis. So I was 272627. And people like Simon Jones, Ian Bates, a lot of people moving. The NTC had been built or had been built already for a year maybe by that time. And people were moving towards London or everything was changing and there was a real opportunity for me in Bath.

And even though I was still young, I interviewed for the job thinking I'm never getting this job, but at least maybe I might get head coach or assistant head coach or something. And then another significant person came into my lab, Jed Roddy, who was the director of sport, and he said just what I'd achieved in sort of 6-7 years of Bath even at my age. And he gave me the job against above people, had 15 sort of 1015 years experience on me. And that really sort of changed the trajectory of my life.

But in a way it took me away from coaching in a way which sometimes I, I think about quite a lot, where I could have improved my coaching skills further. But it gave me a chance to direct, It gave me a new level of salary and I just took it off. I just took on the whole directorship, the leadership, the management. I made plenty of mistakes. And then I realised I needed more experienced people in, in the team. And that's where I start. I, I, I turned to someone like yourself, Dave to come into the team.

I was in my sort of early 30, early 30s and I, I realized I needed some experience and some real tennis knowledge beyond what we were working with, with juniors. And that's where we met Dave, probably 09/20/10 time. Yeah, end of 09. Yeah, the the famous more than two hour meeting on the on on the motorway. Just an aside, we, we, we met at a motorway service station and, and, and end up speaking for about four hours and then we both left merrily on our way and we both got to a significant fine because we're not allowed to park there for more than two hours without being fined.

So an expense of first meeting? And I haven't got a lot better since. Yeah. And then yeah, obviously the in terms of that, the the rest is history because Bath is, you know, is really flourished as a as as as an Academy. Yeah, and then I think with people like yourself, Jim Edgar, Ian MacDonald and and A and A and a vast array of good players, a good facility, top coaches and top players came in. Dan Smethurst, Mel S, Rob Morgan, had Heath, Heath Langley. You know, there's so many great coaches I work with, but also having a head head coach like yourself working with those coaches freed me up to look at other projects.

We worked for 14 years together. We hosted the Fed Cup, we hosted. Beyond that, we hosted many other junior tournaments. We outgrow the game, grow performance. There's a lot of great stories in those fourteen years that we worked together there. And then COVID hit and I, I was already thinking about moving on, changing things. And to be fair to my wife, Sara, she'd already developed the small version of our business because she, she had an MBA, She knew what she wanted to do and she, we'd had kids, which was another big transition in life.

And, but then the pandemic hit and the security of Bath, the security of the, the, the, the role I had became quite important for two or three years, even though I was already starting to think about, oh, should I go part time? Should I take on a new adventure? Should I do something new with my career, The pandemic here? And then I had an extra motivation and purpose to see the programme back from its heyday, almost my heyday with it anyway. And then once the pandemic had passed and we got, we got the programme back to where it needed to be.

And then it I knew it was my time to go and I jumped into our companies called s s Tennis Limited. We, we provide coaching to schools, private schools, we run camps. We are the performance projects like my mentoring. I still work with the university sector and the university pathway with Alastair Higham. And yeah, I've been running that for three years now. And we're sort of that brings us very quickly to to the present day. But so, yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I know it's a, it's a, it's a big story.

And, and, and yeah, it's a, it's a very good story. My, my question to you is, you know, what mental models or principles do you draw upon to make, you know, better decisions, especially under, under pressure? You know, it's, it's, it's, you know, the decisions you make in life are, you know, we never know where it's going to take us, but they are sometimes very important. And, and, and I've just wondered how you navigate that, how you, you know, what, when you have a big decision to make, like stepping away from, you know, director of tennis, what, what are the factors that, that come into play in your head?

Yeah, so it's a great question, Dave. There's a, there's a lot, there's a lot to that. I think early on in my early life, my parents, you know, my father, my father came from Italy with £70 in his pocket and me as a baby, really. And he was like, you can't, the people were like all you'll ever be as a waiter, you know, you're Italian, all you'll ever be as a waiter, you know, and so on. And and that funny story, but he grew a very successful business. He was very resourceful. And my mum was like, Sky's the limit.

You know, she was a nurse and an air Hostess and then she was the housewife. But they were like, do whatever you want, you can do anything. And you know that that was like almost to ridiculous levels. And so when I had the first, probably the first thing with that really was like play tennis as far as you could go. And then the next thing that really came around was, well, you got to go for the interview for that director of tennis job at Bath. Just go for it. You know, And that was always, that's always sits right in the back of my mind.

You can read all the management models. You can read all the, the, the, the business mindsets and psychologies. But there was a big element of me go for it. If it doesn't work out, on to the next. And I think that's I, I like to think of that as one of my strengths. And, you know, the, the failures and mistakes I've made. Yeah, I, there's a couple of things I look back on and I would have done differently, But I don't dwell on them for very long. I don't lose sleep over them. And I, I go for it, move on to the next.

Go for it, move on to the next. And, you know, bringing someone like yourself and Jimmy and let's go for it. Let's see what happens. On to the next. Let's let's host the Fed Cup. Why not? You know, it was totally ridiculous. But but what? Happened. And I think that's been my early attitude to that. And then I through reading lots of books, I'm quite a big reader, I guess more sophisticated as time went on. I think it was about communication in people. It was trust, it was building rapport, thinking, is this someone I want to work with?

Is this someone I want really to work with on the team? And then, you know, through lots of different models and books. And I chopped and changed them over the years. But there was always that abiding thing in the back of my eye. Just go for it. And that's when it came to after the pandemic. Let's grow the business with my wife. We work well together. Just go for it. I don't know where it's going to end up, but we're on that journey now. Brilliant. So yeah, Nike just do it, and Barry Scholar just go for it.

You know, same, same. Messages really, but but very powerful in in your time at at Bath, you know, what player or players journeys that you you know that were in that program kind of influenced you or amazed you or taught you something interesting. So coming from from the the players rather than from the coaching team around you. Yeah, I think I've been inspired by many of the players. And I think firstly, when we had just the junior Academy, it was just the the extraordinary life these kids were leading and almost sort of being told to lead either.

Either if it was by us as an Academy or by the LTA through some prescriptive pathway that they thought needed to be 10 hours of this and five hours of that. I thought, God, these kids live an extraordinary life. So I was often in awe of them coming out of school, getting changed, getting on the call, going back, doing it again and, and keeping it all together. And then when we had the senior players, I got fascinated really in the journey beyond 16 and 18, you know, and there was no one particular player, but I will name people like Samantha Murray, Sam Murray, Elyssi Barnett, Luke Johnson, Giles Hussey, Marcus Daniel.

And watching their journey from, you know, average professional players struggling at moments, injury at moments, having some of the more successful junior careers and other, but not greatly successful, going on a journey on their tennis journey through the ups and downs, through great information and, and what we gave them and what you gave them and just seeing them come through and having their success, I think meant quite a lot to me and how we facilitated that journey and how they came through moments.

And then see Lissy play the Billie Jean King Cup or Sam Murray play Sharapova at Wimbledon or hear about Luke, Luke Johnson and what he's doing now, circa 30 in the world, top, top in the world in double s. I think that is really inspiring to me considering where maybe they weren't really in huge great places when they were 1415 and expected to be some superstar and they carried on just because they had a love of tennis. So what has probably inspired me the most is the actual journey and, and the individual's journey and what they've been through personally and how they keep going back to tennis.

And I, I kind of love that and I love their journeys. Brilliant. Yeah, I think you know, you know, you hear about resilience a lot of the time and and I think what actually stands out with those players that were new and like you say, early on, you didn't really see that it was there. But their resilience was not just to keep going, but to keep going with a fundamental, I think belief underneath that that it was worth it. Not that they were going to do great, which they did, but that that there was with all of the tears and all of the downsides and everything like that there, there was a fundamental enjoyment and, and desire to to maybe do something more.

And so the attitude to that perseverance and resilience was, you know, sometimes very unseen, but basically positive. And I think I think there's a difference between going forward with a basic negativity that I'm not sure this is ever going to happen. And and I don't really believe it's going to happen to a positivity where I'm not sure what's going to happen. But I really want to see how far I can go. And I think I think that maybe separates them from some of the others who maybe because of not having that, I want to that real desire to see where how far I can go.

They would, you know, quit, quit, quit tennis, which is no, no, no crime at all. I mean, if you if it's not something that you absolutely love, then then yeah, you know, quitting is quitting is fine and going on to and you know, there's there's plenty of kids have been through that program are very successful in other areas of life. But I think the the basic ethos that they got from Bath was very helpful for them. A few quick questions. What's a common myth or, you know, piece of bad advice that you hear a lot in in in our field?

I don't know if it's necessary a myth. It might be, it might be bad advice knowing just building on the stories we've just talked about on those journeys having. And I, I, I followed a lot of LTA pathways to get the funding so we could give jobs for coaches, create an opportunity for junior players to develop and sort of, you know, live their dream. But you look at some of those prescriptions and criterias and conditions placed on us. And then you talk about the stories of, of the players we've just talked about that came through Bath and there's still some of them playing professionally now.

None of them I don't think fit into any of those boxes. And I think whilst the LTA were fantastic in lots of ways, they didn't have enough trust of the coaches and the coaching team and the stories that, that we were trying to do. And I know that, you know, they've probably got some chair or committee or board to answer to and you've made, you've got to attend 3 squads, you must attend these 8 hours a week and you cannot certainly go off and do that thing. And I, I, I struggled with that and I think it going back, I would have changed a couple of those situations for sure.

And and being even stronger, but a part of me pander to it because I wanted the funding, I wanted the coaches to have jobs. And there's a responsibility that came with that. And we became prescriptive with players that I know is not me deep down. And I know there's an there's an antidotal story. There's a journey and everyone's on an an individual path. And it's trusting the coaching team that have a proven track record, which we did, to do the job in that way. If it means training four days a week instead of 6, that could be right for that player.

And maybe they will never win a Grand Slam or they will never be top 100, but they will go on their journey. And I think it's it's it's trying to nail that stuff to young players is and parents who feel under pressure who don't know tennis. I think that's part of the bad advice that we've given before and I think could be improved. Yeah. And I think one of the things that is a little bit irritating to me is some of these criteria are not based on science. They're just based on historical ways of doing things and what what certain maybe coaches think is the right way.

But a lot of the science coming out disproves a lot of of of the criteria. And, and, and I'm hopeful that, you know, the, the LTA will move in that direction and, and start to look at the signs, you know, for instance, around, you know, kids staying involved in other sports for much longer. Ultimately, you know, do better than kids who specialize too early. But that's not saying that there's no kids who specialize early don't come through either. You know, it, it, it, it can't be too prescription prescriptive because every individual is so different.

So yeah, very, very good paths.

I know this change that you mentioned a lot, a lot of mentors in your life, but what what has influenced your thought about leadership maybe the most in your life or? The most, yeah. I mean, I think it's it's very difficult because I've had some phenomenal, I've been, I, I, I go, but I'm being around phenomenal people. And someone like Jed Roddy, giving me the job when I had no experience, but he knew I was going to throw myself into it. And he saw the ambition probably in my eyes. I think it was taking a chance on people.

I think that that and then giving them the chance to grow and and, you know, throwing them in the deep water and seeing if they swim or seeing how that goes. That's not a lean, probably in many leadership manuals. But that links very much to the players that we've been talking about because effectively Bach gave them a chance when, when the the track record suggested they, you know, wouldn't, wouldn't normally be chosen to be given a chance. And I think, yeah. And, and from that, Dave, we probably received a lot of criticism from play.

The national coaches of the LTA on Brotha, working with these guys are dealing with that. I don't care. We're working with who we want to work with, the way we want to work. And we love it and we enjoy our time. And it was about enjoying being with the team and being ambitious together, whether those players go to Grand Slams or play for Great Britain or not. It was our journey and it was our tennis story. And that's what we created in Bath. And I think it was is I think, yeah, Jed Roddy, I think it says giving people a chance to go out and see what they can do.

And where you falter, you falter. And when you get up and stand tall, you get up and stand tall and and you, you do, you do great things. I think that that was a big impression on me. And another one was Brian Ashton. He was the rugby manager. I was able to have mentoring sessions with him. It was very much blank page. Here's your blank page. What? What do you want to create? What do you want to push out into the tennis world? How do you who do you want to work with? And Nigel Redmond as well. I think Nigel Redmond influenced my leadership a lot, especially when I thought maybe I should have got more.

I should have been more appreciated than I was. Particularly the University of Bath, because you were just a cog in a big operation. Especially when you host something like the Fed Cup, you don't get a lot of thanks for it and you generate quite a bit of income and exposure for for the tennis program. And Nigel reminded me to be a warrior, not a victim. I think that that always resonates when I feel sorry for myself. Now that sits with me, You know, Barry, be the warrior, not the victim. And I, it's a very simple information.

I, like I said, building on from my original, move on to the next, go for it, move on to the next. You're a warrior, not a victim. So that's how I see it. And then I think what I took from you, Dave, as a leader was you're, you're listening and then you're questioning and I, I, I still that that sits with me as well. I think about that often, you know, and that's where I thought you when you were at your height of your powers and still are with what you do, is the, the I've met a lot of great coaches and a lot of egotistical coaches.

And we've all got an ego to a point where the one thing that differentiated you for me was your listening and then coming through with a cutting question. And that's where I I appreciated working with you and that that helped my leadership as well. Brilliant. Well, thanks for that, Baz. And we did have a lot of fun as well, which was absolutely great. And my last question to you is, you know, and not going back too far, but if you could go back just 10 years and you had a mentor yourself, you know what, what's one thing you'd or or two things that you would say to yourself now?

Yeah, this is a really good question for me. I think I'm quite impatient like to to to sort of crack on with lots of different things and maybe not do them and maybe half bake a few things. So I would go back and tell myself to be more patient and have a little more attention to detail with the off court stuff. And also, I think more, more rehearsing and planning, particularly when because people often said to me, ah, Barry, you know, just flash a smile, crack a joke and you'll wing it and you'll be fine.

And I, I was like, no, I need to, I do need to plan. I do need to rehearse. And in going back, I would, I would spend more time rehearsing the presentation, planning, planning exactly what I was going to say. And I would go back 1015 years to myself and go, you know, sit me down and go just calm it all down. You don't need to rush through the day. You can get these things, you know, work in this time. Go off and cut time out of the day to rehearse and plan. I think it's the, it's the old adage. I'm not sure whether quote exactly.

Maybe an old American president, you know, spend more time sharpening the saw and, and, and then you'll cut down the tree in an hour rather than spend 8 hours trying to cut down the tree and, and you know, they're all making a mistake and have them duplicate work to really rehearse, prepare, execute, recover. I would definitely go back and because I was just wanted to go 1,000,000 miles an hour and do everything for everyone. Brilliant. It's been a a real pleasure having you and of course, then it it becomes your turn to put me in a hot seat and you've given me forewarning with the questions, which I appreciate.

I have. I have a sort of 5050 split where people just catch me on on the hop, which is also equally different fun. But I look forward to that. So thank you very much, Mr. Barry Scholar. Thanks for watching Locker Room Power with David Samuel. If you enjoyed the episode, hit subscribe and leave a comment on your favorite platform. See you in the next one.

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