Hamish Kerr: The Olympic Champion Mindset | Why Real Champions Never Stop Competing

You've already kind of illuminated how sport has impacted your life, but what are the characters traits that you think sport helped you develop so that you could, you know, get to that place in your mind where you could ask for a jump off in the Olympics rather than share the title? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a fascinating scenario like for for us as athletes, I suppose to to take your run back to that moment for people who who. Well, good morning from here in the UK and good evening to you from New Zealand, Hamish Olympic gold medalist, high jumper.

It's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and I can't wait to get into and dive into some of the questions that I have for you and your perspectives on it. But before I do that, why don't you give a snapshot of kind of your life history and how this all came about for you? Yeah, perfect. Well, thanks. Thanks heaps for having me on. David. Good morning to you. Yeah, I, I guess for me, yeah. I, I grew up here in New Zealand and, you know, for our sport is such a big part of our lives, you know, we spend a lot of time outside.

New Zealand has got a very big kind of outdoors culture within its tourism and within its kind of environments. For me, being outside was was where all my fond memories as a child were were from. And sport for me was was really just a vehicle to, to have fun, you know, enjoy time with my mates and just get away from the classroom more than anything. I started athletics as a, as sort of a 5 or 6 year old who at the time didn't even know I was athletics. You know, I was, I was just running up the hill and going on, you know, all these sorts of adventures, but also doing, you know, the formalized division at school athletics day.

So that was sort of my first experience of, of running and jumping. And I guess my love for, for that sport evolved through, through my, my childhood, along with other sports, you know, I played rugby and, and football and all the other kind of fun sports that we do as, as children here. It was and, and tennis, I might add. I was, I was a rubbish tennis player, but I, I loved it all the, all the, I, yeah, I, I, I guess my, my sort of reason that I stayed in athletics, you know, through high school particularly was, was this, this bond that I had with the training school that I was part of.

So I, I joined a local athletics company. I was about 10 years old and you know, I had a had an amazing time just just being a part of it, not necessarily competing or, or worrying about how high I was jumping or how fast I was running, but just enjoying the time that I was spending down at the track and the summer down here in New Zealand. So that sort of each year progressed a little bit as I got better and better. And at this stage, so through high school years, I, I wasn't a national champion.

I wasn't AI wouldn't say I was particularly ground breaking in terms of the, the heights that I was jumping. But there was sort of an expectation or there was a, there was a feeling there that if I really wanted to try hard, I, I probably could get quite good at it. And so that, that sort of was the little carrot on the end of the stuck that every year I, I pushed away the harder and, and tried a little bit more. I, you know, I trained a few more days a week and, and, and was a bit more serious about it.

And when I got to the end of high school, I won my first national title. And so that was a secondary school national title. And then that same year I also won the, the senior men's outdoor national title as well. So that's by the best high jump in New Zealand essentially. From there I actually went to uni and gave away the sport for a couple of years and studied economics. So that was. I can ask a question. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sorry, it's a little delay from from your side. It just because I've long had this belief and and I wondered if it if it resonates with you that if you're good at something, as you start to gain more success, your desire grows rather than you've had, you know, you have this unbelievable desire from the off.

Think, I think so. I think I definitely see the fact that I didn't win a lot as a young kid as a real advantage to me. I don't think that winning all the age group titles as I as I went through the sport was necessarily a bad thing. My my foundations within the sport was that I loved it. And as I got better and as the confirmation that I was good and being all these other things kind of added on top of it, that was almost like the bonus rather than this kind of feeling of coming in and and straight away just like loving it because I was winning everything.

And so I think, yeah, from the sustainability side of it, you know, as I, as I sort of am starting to get older and especially my journey in sport when I went away from uni, I, the reason I ended up coming back was that I, I realized how much I missed athletics and, and how much of a big part of my life it was. So yeah, I, I definitely think that that confirmation of what I'm doing and, and, and how I am acting and, and, and being in the space as I got better and better was, was different confirmation.

But at the same time, I think at the heart of it, I just love what I do. And so that was kind of there before I was even any good at it and is still there now. So that's kind of, you know, when I have those hard days or feel like, is this really worthwhile? Like I just go back to that love of just what I'm doing in the 1st place. Perfect. So yeah, sorry I interrupted. So just carry on. So now you're the best high jumper in New Zealand. Yes, yeah. So then I then I went to university. I gave it away.

I didn't see a future and in track and field at that time, being from a small country in New Zealand and not really having a pathway available to me, I, I spent a couple of years studying and then just at the end of my degree, I, I sort of went back to being an athlete. I started training and pretty regularly still studying at that time. And then once I graduated, I was lucky enough to kind of catch the eyes of the national selectors in New Zealand. And they sort of put a little bit of funding around me to enable me to train full time straight out of uni with the kind of premise that if I got better in the next couple of years, then potentially I could, you know, be a, a medalist or, or go to be someone who could go to the Olympics for a world champs and, and do quite well.

So that was really cool that I had that belief in in my back pocket. And from there, that was 2018. Pretty much the goal was to make Tokyo and if I made Tokyo, that was amazing. I would have known that I had kind of ticked off that that love of the sport and, and, and wanting to know how far I could have gone. But also in saying that if I hadn't made Tokyo, at least I would have known as well and went to Tokyo, made the final and that kind of kick started that next part of my career where then I sort of realized that, you know that what if and and how how good could I be was only just starting to scratch the surface.

And so that's when I kind of, I was also working at that time. So that's when I quit my job and had enough kind of funding and, and, and support around me to be able to go full time. And ever since then I've, I've just kind of continued in leaps and bounds. And, and, you know, now I'm at a point where I've won the Olympics, I'm the world champion and, and, you know, I've got this great repertoire of, of competitions behind me. But, you know, I still sit here and, and have that kind of nagging feeling of I still don't quite know how high I can go.

So that's, that's sort of where we're at on that kind of continuum. And yeah, the journey continues. So aiming for LA in 28. LA and and also just trying to jump as high as possible. And I think that's the, the beautiful thing with our supporters is there's there's obviously an element of titles and competing against the guys that you know, I'm out there with and, and, and jumping against. But there's also this, this real element of competing against yourself. Every time you do a competition, you obviously get a measure at the end of it.

And that's something that you can then directly measure with pretty much anyone in history who's who's done the event. Where I am now, whether my career is, I know I've got the titles, but I don't have the heights. And so that's the thing that's really kind of getting me out of bed at the moment, is trying to work on how we can optimize those fights. And I think that while doing that, the titles should take care of themselves. But at the same time, yeah, it's sort of very much now the focus is back on what are the things that I can do and what's sort of the intrinsic motivation behind getting out of bed and doing this every day rather than just wanting to go out there in one.

I mean, what I I know for sure is love of the sport sits at the heart of rarely any champion, because being a champion doesn't necessarily mean you actually win, you know, championship medals, you know, because in tennis, I know some people who've done extremely well and not won a major title. But what gets them up in the morning is just trying to get better and get better. And it's not quite as easy to measure as your sport, but it's, it's essential that they always looking to get better because otherwise it can be a little bit invading if you work so hard and you actually never get a title.

I mean, there, there have been players who've been, you know, 30 in the world who've actually never won a title. I know, you know, one in particular, Byron Black, I think made like 4 finals, but he never won one. But you know, played for a long time and just absolutely loved playing tennis. Right into my first question, you've already kind of illuminated how sport has impacted your life. But what are the characters traits that you think sport helped you develop so that you could, you know, get to that place in your mind where you could ask for a jump off in the Olympics rather than share the title?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a fascinating scenario like for for us as athletes, I suppose to to take a run back to that moment for people who who maybe you've forgotten about it or don't know what happened. Essentially me and Shelby McEwen, an American guy, we had the exact same number of misses on our scorecard at the end of the the final in Paris. And that meant that at that time we were first equal. And you've kind of got two options and, and athletics, you, you can either both shake hands and, and just call it there and, and share that that middle, or you can do what's called jump off.

And what happens in a jump off is you get one more attempt at the height that you guys have just missed. And then you keep going down and 2cm increments until one guy clears and one guy misses. And we agreed to continue jumping and think I think that would continue. Jumping is what's really key for me and the big reason why I really did what I did. For me, sport has always been about I suppose. I suppose one of the biggest things I've kind of learned in sport is the worst thing to do is not try your hardest and fail.

It's actually to give up in the 1st place. And as far as I was concerned, that competition wasn't over. There wasn't one guy who was standing on the top of that dais with with the middle and, and there by himself, which is what sport fundamentally is about. And so therefore, the job wasn't done. And so for me, there was no doubt in my mind that we would continue jumping until there was one guy standing. And and I was amazingly stoked with the fact that I was there with Shelby. He's someone I know very well.

And I know that he also did not want to change that middle. So yeah, I think I think it was really special to be in that moment and, and have that showcase. And, and also like, it's also about the fans and, and the way the sport makes those people at home feel. Whether you agree with the middle decision or not, I think it's made everyone feel quite strongly and for me that's what's important. OK. And so my follow up question to that is, do you think the character traits that you need to succeed were intrinsic within you or did they develop over time?

Think, I think there's elements in both. I I can name a few traits that have changed and a few that have stayed the same. I think a couple that have have definitely changed, especially when I, I, I turned full time or professional was I have this love competition. I, I love competing. I love getting out there and, and jumping in front of a crowd and, and trying to, you know, go man to man with these guys. But I was never very good at training. The difference between all my top jumps in training versus my top jumps in competition were 20 centimeters different, which, which for a high jump is, is quite a significant amount.

And so the, the first thing I really had to learn when I got into this, this the space was the competition is such a small part of what we do. You know, the time that I spend training compared to competing, I would say less than 1% of the time is competing. It's at the end of the day, the most important part. But if you don't see that foundation, then you can't use that 1% to the best of your ability. And so one of the things that has really strongly changed for me is, is that ability to be very, very workmanlike and very detail orientated in the way that I train, in the way that I turn up every day and the consistency that I've been kind of put towards that.

I think, you know, I was reflecting on the other day, I had been full time for about 8 years now. And in that time, I've probably missed about four days of training. And that, that level of detail and that level of consistency of just turning up every single day is ultimately the way that you make those gains. So that's, that's massive. One thing that I would say hasn't changed, and it's something that it was always sort of there is I'm, I'm an eternal optimist. I, I see positives in failure or in, in tough situations.

And that is something that I've had all throughout my career is even when I hadn't won or the outcome hasn't been quite as, as expected to what I thought it was going to be. I I've learned a lot out of it and I've been able to kind of get into this position where I will bounce back and bounce back stronger. Yeah, I would say when I'm losing a lot on tour or in in a number of competitions, that's when I'm the most dangerous because throughout that I'm taking on those things. I'm taking on board learnings and changes and and ways of of working to to get any better.

I love that reframing of, you know, when you've not done as well as you want to do, that's when you you're most dangerous. I think that's a, that's a really great mindset to have because, you know, I always, you know, say to tennis players that rankings are built on winning streaks. And when you're on a losing streak, you're always one step closer to that winning streak. So yeah, again, keep that optimism going. My next question was what inspires you and something that evolved to help you succeed?

But I think what evolved you've answered already is a different level of focus to training and the attention to detail in training. I don't know if there's anything else and and it seems that what inspires you is just the basic love of the sport, but is there anything else that really inspires you? Was something coming to your life now with the success that inspires you to go further? I think the love of the sport is kind of underpins everything, but there's also this, this love of wanting to know how good I can be.

And, and there's almost this intense Cura curiosity in trying to find out that endpoint. I feel like every day I get up, I've got an opportunity to, to just tinker around with, with the engine and with the motor and, you know, all of the little bits and bobs that make up me as a high jumper. And, and the more I tinker and the more I learn and develop that, that kind of that process, the better I will be. And I think that's something that I find incredibly inspiring is it's, it's a very personal journey, quite selfish at times, but at the same time, like I feel like I am, I'm refining who I am Hamish Kurdi athlete, but also who I am Hamish Kurdi person.

And, and, and throughout this process, I feel like I'm getting to know that person more and more the, the good bits and the bad bits. But I think that's, that's something that really inspires me. And, and, and when I meet other people who are, who are also doing things like that, I, I find it very incredibly inspiring that sense of someone who was very deeply connected to who they are and their purpose and is essentially willing to, to do whatever they need to do to kind of distill that down further and further.

Yeah, I want to, I want to just make a point on the selfishness. It's impossible to, you know, succeed at a high level in sport without being selfish. It's it just, you know, it, it is something that, you know, kind of has to consume you more or less. And I think Marcus is an unbelievable example of having to be selfish in your sport and the understanding that once you're done with your sport, then you will have the platform and the ability to be unselfish and to give back and to do all of those things.

And I think it's, it's I think in sports, you have to learn delayed gratification. You got to do all this work and, and wait for success to to come. And I think the idea of giving back and being able to be less selfish is again, a delayed gratification that you have to wait till after your career to maybe focus on on other things. Yeah, definitely. I, I, I think adding to that as well, like I think true selfishness is not a bad thing, the sense of selfishness being doing things for yourself. But I, I also see the platform and, and the being able to give back doesn't actually happen if you aren't selfish in the 1st place.

And so I think there's sort of this, this unique sort of kind of dichotomy in a way of like if you aren't truly selfish, then you'll never be able to give back. Yeah, that's just kind of my thing is like if I, if I can kind of bank it up, but then you also improve and therefore build your, you know, whatever it is you want to build your bank or your skill set or your, your profile and then and then at a certain point you can use that to then get back. Cool. Who or what has influenced you, amazed you, or taught you something incredibly interesting or useful?

I know that list can be quite long, but if you could just narrow down to one or two people or events I. Have I have two people who come to mind pretty quickly when, when I was sort of reflecting on this question. The first one is my father. My father is by no means an athlete. He, he wish he was, he, he loves the outdoors. He, he has intense love for, for being outside when he can. But his, his skill set is in medicine. So he's a cardiologist who does a lot of population health work as well. He, he has, his, has, you know, has, has worked with his, his patients and, you know, the ability every day to directly impact people's lives and, and affect, you know, life and death situations essentially.

But on top of that as well, he, he does a lot of research into underlying health issues within people's predisposition to have cardiac events. And, and I think the thing that I really see in him is that this idea of, of being a high performer is not only in athletics or in or in, you know, business or in leadership. That's, that's in everybody. And the way that he operates at such a high level, day in day out for Neuron, 3040 years is so inspiring to me. And I just look at my career sometimes and I suppose it puts in perspective what I do quite a lot.

But at the same time, if I can even have a tiny bit of impact to even the level that he has had, then then I would say my, my career has been very, very worthwhile. The other person as well is my physio who I have worked with since I pretty much turned professional. And so Tamsin is someone who who loves a deep chat and is always kind of willing to debate various things. And, and she was the person who actually told me what I, what I mentioned earlier around it's not true failure to go out there, try your best and fail.

It's to go out there and give up. And I think that the freedom that it gives you to remind yourself that even if you're trying your hardest and it doesn't work out, if you know big down, you've tried your hardest and that's, that's OK. I think that's an incredibly powerful thing and gives me a lot of freedom and those five moments to describe there and express myself, because I know that so long as I'm acting true to myself, the outcome is irrelevant. I really like that, she must be an amazing person as well.

She can be exhausting at times, but she is very good. So I wrote a book called Locker Room Power and it's about the aura that champions bring and, and it's kind of based on, on, on a formula, desire plus belief plus success and plus your, your weapons or your superpowers. And, and that equals locker room power. I'm convinced that most champions, all champions use it, but most champions are aware of it that you know what it is that kind of puts fear into your opponents that you have. I'm interested if if you are very aware of the aura that you carry and what it is that kind of puts fear into opponents.

Yeah, I think, I think for me, yeah, very much so. I think that there is an aura that a lot of champions carry. And I suppose the beautiful thing with track and field is that we have so many different events happening at the same time. And so there's a champion in every single event and as a high jumper sitting there in the middle of the track for, for three hours at a time, I can, I can watch all these champions. And, and I, I very much agree with you that, that there is something that sets apart champions to, to non champions, so to speak.

But I think for me, when I can, I really feel like my, my competition starts feeling crushed, as if they know that I'm having a good time. That is when I compete the best. We did a little bit of work at the last couple of years around the differences between my my cops where I jump really high and my cops where I don't jump very high. And one of the main themes that came out was in those cops that I don't jump very high for whatever reason, I didn't want to be there. And might have been that, that competition was kind of thrown in between two big ones.

And so it was sort of in a little bit of an off week, or if there was some organizational issues that had kind of got in my head or the weather wasn't very good or, you know, all these different kind of components, which meant that I kind of felt like I just had to get out there and do my job and just turn up. But the difference between there and those comps where I was excited, I felt like I couldn't sleep the few days before because of this, this excitement and this real feeling of wanting to get out there and, and, and getting amongst it.

Those are the comps where I get out there, I'm smiling, I'm chatting to all the boys. I'm not hidden away in my hole. I'm, I'm out there kind of openly discussing with people, not even about the sport, but just about what they've been up to. And, and just almost this really animated version of myself, that's when I'm really dangerous and that's when I jump really high. And so, yeah, I, I, I guess when I go out like that and I start jumping high and start going through the rounds looking really comfortable, that's when the boys get really scared.

And and you're aware that they're starting to feel it. Yeah, I think so. Like I, I, you definitely like at in the moment, I, it's not something that I lean into per SE, But if you look at videos of me jumping and you look at all the boys standing there watching, because obviously, you know, we only jump once at a time. You can see the body language change. And you know, if I, if I can get a, a third attempt at quite a key height and walk away smiling and feeling like, yeah, that was an awesome experience.

Because third attempts, I mean, we, we only get 3 attempts per bar. So if you get, you missed third attempt, you're out. So it's like a sudden death kind of. It's almost like, I don't know, defending a match point or something. But if I can walk away from there and be like, hey, that was awesome. I want to do that again. They're like, this is just not our day. But I think, I think that little psychological edge has a big impact when it comes to the business end, because that little bit of doubt, because that's all you're trying to do is, is create an element of doubt in your opponent's head.

Because doubt is something that causes people to hesitate, to lose a bit of confidence, and that can be the difference. So enthusiasm and enjoyment and again, bottom line, showing your love of the sport is what is really your superpower once you're out there. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's love of my sport and the way that I do it. And that's the hard thing because in that moment, I'm, I'm not influenced by my competitors. I, I almost, I want them to do better so that I can showcase more of my talent.

And that was a key kind of thing that we, we changed in, in my mindset a few years ago was instead of this mindset of like turning up and hoping that the other boys don't jump well, it's turning up and hoping that they jump really well. And I just jump better. And so in that moment, if those guys are on fire but I'm enjoying myself, that makes me enjoy myself even more. Yeah, I mean, I love that. And, and you know, I've heard this before from, from great champions and, you know, Novak and Roger and Rafa, you know, all said, you know, we're so grateful for each other, for pushing each other.

And, you know, and, and you know, people say, oh, if one of them didn't exist, you know, one of them might have won multiple more grand slams. That's not necessarily true because the competition between them drove them to higher and higher competencies and improvements. And that consistent drive to try and stay one step ahead of each other I think was a big contributing factor to them all being so successful. And without each other. It may not have been that one just streaked away with loads more grand slams.

But yeah, that's, and, you know, going into final saying, you know, I want him to play his best or I want her to play her best so that I can see where exactly where I'm at and I can bring out my best. Yeah. Again, it's a, it's a, it's a fantastic mindset. So my, my next question for you is, you know, you've talked about detail and, and thinking about your sport and you know, obviously your enthusiasm under pressure, does this carry over into other precious situations in life or is it kind of contained for your sport?

Yeah, it does. It does. I think for me, I find great joy in and maneuvering through precious situations, love kind of getting sort of almost seeing them coming towards me and, and, and feeling like, Oh, this is going to be hard. This is really going to test me. And then being in that moment and, and using my skill set to, to problem solve that, that precious situation, then walk away from it, knowing that I'm a better person because of it. And I think also for me, you know, in those moments, one of the big things that I always use to kind of help me is, is the power of perspective.

And it's something as a, as an optimist and, and as someone who's always kind of looked at these things relatively positive. I, I think my ability to even look at, you know, the, the, the jump off in the Olympic final, for example, as potentially the biggest moment in my life. And yet, regardless of whether I win or lose, I'm still going to wake up the next morning. My parents are still going to be there, my girlfriend's still going to love me and I'll just get on to the next one. And I think that even in those really hard moments, I still have that belief down there, sitting there just reminding myself that you just go out there, you do your best, and then you just continue on.

That's, you know, I mean, it's a, it's a brilliant way of, of handling pressure, which is, you know, that wider perspective. Because I think that's what really, you know, hurts a lot of competitors is they suddenly become very, very narrow and it becomes all about that match or that competition or that event. And you know, all the, the, the whole mindset is, you know, I'm preparing for the Olympics and basically I'm supposed to win and I must win it. And you know, that, that being the goal rather than, you know, go there, do your best and, and enjoy it.

And whatever happens, your overall life is not really going to, you know, disappear or fall away from you, which which is which is great. I've got a few more quick questions. What's a common myth or piece of bad advice that you hear a lot in more sport? I think the big thing for me is there's no golden rules. Everyone is trying to find this little thing that they think is gonna make the difference, but for me, it's very much how does the whole framework fit together to elicit the response you want?

Not one piece of advice or one change in approach is going to do that. It's there has to be a sum of its parts. Yeah, well, I mean that that that is something I learned as a coach from from Richard Krycheck who won Wimbledon. But he changed from A2 handed to A1 handed backhand. And you know, at the time I played and was coach at the club that he played at, but I wasn't his coach. He was with the national squad and national coach and he had a very good two handed backhand. And I just couldn't understand this decision and the and the reasoning behind it was seemed crazy.

And he's one handed backhand wasn't great. I mean, it just wasn't. But after you won Wimbledon, we were sitting talking and I said, have you ever wondered how good you would have been if you'd kept the two handed backhand? And he said 30 or 40 in the world. I would rarely explain. And he said, well, my one handed backhand, especially when I started with it was terrible. And but I'm a competitor and I decided that I needed to find a way to win without really having a a good backhand. And he said it made tennis very easy for me because I had to run around my backhand and hit as many four hands as possible.

I had to hit them big. I had to really improve my slice approach and get to the net as soon as possible. Therefore I had to improve my serve and I had to serve and volley a lot. And that is how I developed my game because at the end of it, it's like the challenge. Can I win with without this backhand? And it was in that moment that I realized it's about the whole package. And it is not one thing that's going to make the difference. And so many players will have a weakness and it's like they Rage Against it and they hate their weakness and they obsess about their weakness rather than having that mindset, which is, OK, this is not my strongest place, but how do I win with this and figure out a way to do it there and, and present a package that is really powerful despite their weakness.

And actually that weakness turned out in his mind. And it doesn't matter whether it's true or not. He was very successful, but in his mind to be a great strength because it forced him to play a certain way. And he said if he'd kept the two handed backhand, he would have always hedged his bets. Yeah. So brilliant. Let's go. So no one, the biggest myth is that you know that there's one thing that's going to save you. What advises most influence you in the way that you think about relationships. Because obviously in sport you have coach, you have physio, you have nutritionists, you have so many people that you have to have a relationship with.

And of course in high pressure situations, those things can stress out. Is there anything that you've learned about handling relationships? One thing said she comes from my mother when we were growing up and one of her big kind of rules for us as kids was that if you did something naughty, the worst part about doing something naughty was lying about it afterwards. If you came clean and you had a discussion about what happened and, and you moved away from, you know, you moved past that and, and, and you learned from it.

That's the most important thing. If you lied about it, that was that. That was when she got really angry. And I take that into all my relationships now is, is that that feeling of of trust, building that trust through honest hard conversations and really understanding and nightly what your support team is trying to get you to do through having those constructive hard conversations is ultimately what helps you in those pressure moments. There's been multiple moments in my career where I have had to essentially trust my coach with my life.

I don't understand what's going on. It might be that I'm jumping badly. I can't find feeling in the way that I'm trying to run my curve or or take off, whatever it is. But I can look him in the eyes and he can tell me what to do and I just believe him. And I've gone through those moments. Whereas if I didn't have that trust with him, then that would not have happened. So, yeah, it's all about having those those upfront conversations. If you can have those, if you can kind of work through those with those people, then you guys will come out the other side better.

Yeah. Essential. That trust is so powerful and so important in those key moments, and I think sometimes failure in athletes is just purely that not being able to have those hard conversations and that will bite them in big moments, and it's very, very important to be able to have those conversations. I know a lot of athletes who withhold information from their coaches or when I talk to their coaches, it feels like they're on different paths in terms of their messaging. And I always see those relationships as the ones that aren't going to last or the athletes who in the ultimate moment of pressurable fail.

And I so far have have seen a pretty, pretty strong theme in the in the affirmative of that. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. You know, once a trust is gone, it's done, you know, so that's that. That's very true. And I think it's it's, you know, being successful is about essentially you, but the team around you and they've got to trust you and you've got to trust them. And. And in that sense, it is very much a team effort. Yeah. Great stuff. What's the the most fun you've had through being the best in the world?

I've had a lot of fun doing some pretty cool things. And so obviously I've had some amazing experiences. I've, I've gone in Formula One, I've been to the Tour de France, which was a bucket list for me last year when I was over in Europe. But I, I think for me, reflecting back on all the things I've done in my career, the most fun I have now is having the ability to take my medal to show people and especially young children. A I remember one of the most motivating and inspiring things that happened to me when I was a child is we had a Olympic medalist come to our school.

And I just remember idolizing him in the sense that he was this guy who, who had achieved his dreams and, and, and just gone out there and, and competed for our country and, and gone out into the, the huge world and succeeded. And I feel now I'm mine duty and, and, and my, my great joy is being able to take that medal and, and take it to kids and, and hopefully inspire the next generation. I think there's some really cool stuff I do personally, but in terms of my ultimate purpose and and what I'm kind of here to do that is that is the the the most fun I have.

Fabulous, lovely answer. So my, my last question is yeah, to you is who should I have on next and who will you introduce me to? I will introduce you to my coach. I I feel like the way that we operate, we haven't really gone into too much detail, but he, he's my best mate. He's the same age as me. We used to live together. We both came from the sport at the same time. And then he ended up going into a coaching role. I continued as an athlete and we sort of met up a few years later as, as sort of an athlete and coaching peering.

And the, the kind of alignment and ability we have to, to filter out the different things that the different roles we play per SE is, is pretty inspiring. And, and I think that a lot of the success I've had and the way that I look at all these problems is, is a lot around his messaging and his understanding of me. So he'd be someone who would be pretty interesting to to get a deep dive into. I would love to speak to him. So that's fabulous. Thank you very much. Right. Well, that brings us to to the end and I really appreciate you being here.

Of course, you're going to have a chance to put me on the hot seat. So I look forward to that. See you next week. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks, Henry. For watching Locker Room Power with David Samuel, if you enjoyed the episode, hit subscribe and leave a comment on your favorite platform. See you in the next one.

The Story