Ian MacDonald | Identity, Coaching & How Great Players Think

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And in a relatively small pond, I was a big deal. And I think, as I said, I've always been quite mature for my age. But that maturity kind of led me into immaturity where I thought I knew a lot more than I actually did. And I thought that, you know, I could solve people's problems and I could really help people. And I had a lot of answers. And if I look back again, was, I suppose, an arrogance that Maka, great to have you back. This is your turn to put me in the hot seat. Do remind me at the end.

If you can think of somebody that you would like me to interview at another time, that'd be great. But yeah, I'm I'm ready for you and fire away. Right, let's see if I can make you make you squirm. So we'll, we'll open with #1 So Dave, knowing what you know now, if you could sit with a 16 year old Dave, what were the three biggest bits of advice you would have for him? The first one is, is is pretty easy for me.

And that would have been to listen more and try to discern who to listen to because I was, I've always been a confident person. You know, I won the speech festival in in high school, like, you know, three times. So, you know, you know, talking and, and, and, and, you know, being able to express myself and, and I think, you know, when people say you're much more mature than your age, it and you're 1617, you, you take that as a really big compliment and you wear it as a badge of honor, But it can also make you just a little bit overconfident in in what you can do.

And and then you maybe miss some of the clues that that could have really helped. And so I think even if you're very, very confident, I think it's really important to, to really hear people and, and try and, you know, reflect just a little bit, which is tough for 16 year olds, but, you know, think a little bit more about, about what you're hearing. So that that would be the first thing. The second thing is try to find and, and you alluded to this in, in, in when you spoke a, a mentor, somebody who believes in you and can show you what is possible because I, I think I did try that.

And just, I think, you know, when, when you're young and, and you know, going through things,

maybe a mentor has to pick you up. But I, I didn't know about mentoring. It didn't even ever enter my head. And so, you know, I went to College in the States and you know, I, I don't feel like I had a mentoring coach there at all. And so I was constantly looking for a way forward and find it really, really difficult. And it I came across a guy called Dennis Ralston who actually won Wimbledon. He coached SMU and at that time he was exorbitantly expensive for private lessons. But I had a couple with him and in hindsight, I knew he was on the right track with my game.

In hindsight, a far better investment would have been to spend a bit more money with him and to learn more about the game of tennis before eventually going out on the tour and, and, and not doing nearly as well as I believe my talent would have allowed. So, so I think, you know, probably, you know, speaking back to 16 year old, I'm not sure I would have been able to do that much about it. But I would say to, you know, parents, find a coach or find, you know, doesn't matter what your kid is doing, you know, find a good, a good coach for them, whatever it is, you know, and, and, and somebody who can just shortcut things a bit and, and give clarity.

So, you know, and I don't think, you know, that's great advice to a 16 year old. I don't know if I could have done anything about it, but I do think if, if I'd known that that was a pathway to look for, it would have been very, very helpful. The third thing is, I mean, stay humble and I mean you, you one knows, but as I said, I was a pretty confident kid. And I would say that I went through a period, especially, you know, in college where I was number 1, you know, things were going really well and, and, and, you know, in, in a relatively small pond as a big deal.

And I think as I said, I've always been quite mature for my age, but that maturity kind of led me into immaturity where I thought I knew a lot more than I actually did. And I thought that, you know, I could solve people's problems and I could, you know, you know, really help people and, and, and, and I had a lot of answers. And if I look back again, that that was, I suppose, an arrogance that that I remember going back to South Africa and, you know, looking at home and sort of picking apart, you know, all the things that were, was, were going wrong.

And, you know, in my sisters and brothers and my parents kind of life. And, you know, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? You know, come on, this is so simple. You can fix all of this. And and that was very naive. So that's why I say the maturity actually LED into a period of actually pseudo maturity, because it was actually very, very immature. So I would say to the 16 year old again, listen more and and try to remember that as as confident as you can be, which is a good thing.

Don't think that you that you know very much because because you don't. So, yeah, those would be be the three things is if you know that that humbleness was taught to me over time, playing the tour and losing a lot and starting to realize how little I knew. And then obviously, you know, life happens and people come into your life and, and, and, and I'm just grateful that I, I think I was smart enough to realize that and reflect and go, oh, I probably wasn't always the nicest guy when it went when when I was in my early 20s.

And that does I was not, you know, I wasn't a bad guy, but I was, I was, yeah, a little bit full of myself. And and and yeah, it, it was not the, IT was not the helpful path to win very hand in hand with, you know, if you think you know a lot, you don't listen that well either. Yeah. Do you think you you started to realize some of this and then that has paid off in your coaching? Is it something? You without a doubt. I think, I think that awareness that that started to come to me when I started actually coaching, you know, more so because suddenly I was not just thinking about myself, you know, having to think about other players.

And yeah, I think that that reflection, which I think also came from, from getting married, which is, you know, you know, Joy's a pretty strong person and, and, and a bit older than me. And she, you know, she would call me out on stuff. And I remember a few times thinking, you know, and maybe even kind of pushing back against it, but inside going, you know, holy shit, she's right. And then having to apologize and, and so you know that, you know, those things are very helpful. But I think also once I, I really, I mean, I was always interested in psychology.

So, you know, I've always read a lot and, and, and I started then really, you know, reading about, you know, what makes people tick and about life and, and those reflections made me start thinking about and then naturally saying, OK, as a coach, what do players need that I didn't have that I need to give them? And, and, and it's an interesting one because you, you want to short circuit things for them and give them the, the shortcut, but you kind of realize that they also have to go through their own mistakes and their own learnings.

And you can't, you can't shortcut it all for them. You, you know, the, the shortcut is still actually a long way. And, but, but I do think that it, it, it, it was, you know, the, my, my, my driving force initially was, you know, help players not make the mistakes that I've made. And that was the initial driving force. And obviously, over time, it got more sophisticated and, and more about, you know, how do you get them to, you know, learn for themselves and, and have a more questioning style of coaching and not just tell, tell, tell.

And, and that evolution has just just continued all through. Yeah, it's interesting point. You ain't though, isn't it about whether if you did sit and make those points to a 16 year old day, whether a 16 year old day could have actually taken them on board and, and and done anything about it or whether you you wouldn't have been able to kind of accept them or hear them or ready to hear them is yeah, maybe that's what, what separates the, the great young is how they, you know, that level of maturity.

Yeah, yeah, they, they recognize it very early. Yes, I think, I think the only chance I would have had is and, and I don't know, I might have, you know, run away from them. But the only chance I think I would have had is is a really strong personality getting behind me and painting the dream of what is possible. You know, if I shut the fuck up and and and listened. You. Know where I felt? Oh, yeah. And I think that that was a possibility because, you know, the second coach I had in college, I liked him as a person.

He just wasn't good enough at the job of teaching tennis to grab me fully. And, and had that, had he had just a greater and wider knowledge of the game and what I needed to do, I think he could have pulled me, pulled me away from, from the bullshit. But again, you, you, you don't know. I mean, that's in, you know, hindsight. It was a long time ago. So I, I mean, but I, I think because I, I wasn't, you know, a bad guy. I, I, I, I think, I think if somebody hit the buttons it, it may have happened.

But yeah, you just don't know. But what I've, what I've never felt is like, OK, you know, you know, that was terrible. And I, I didn't do as well as I could have done or anything like it's, it's, you know, I had a different path in life and, and my path has touched other people and, and, you know, it's, it's been a, a great journey and, and it's still a great journey even now. So, you know, it's, it's who, you know, there's no way to say that my, you know, my life would have been, you know, a better life had I been a very, very good, I mean, I was a good tennis player, but a very, very good tennis player.

Maybe that arrogance would have come back or being great and I just would have become a a Dick. Who knows, You know, you just, you just don't know. So you know, it's, it's, you know, everybody has their journey. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Right. So on to the second one. So during your coaching journey, what have you, what have been the biggest, what's been the biggest evolution in coaching? Or you know, how has coaching evolved over the years and what do you see as the next the next big changes in coaching?

I mean, I think for me personally, the biggest involvement was when Roger Federer won the 2018 Australian Open.

He you know, that that final he played against Nadal and took and took the ball so, so early. I felt like that kind of took a little bit away from my edge as a coach because, you know, you know, how much early ball and, and moving through the ball and, and being able to, you know, not not just spot the short ball, but it was that three quarter ball where you can get on to it and just speed up the point and stuff like that. And I, and I felt that after that, the whole tour kind of tweaked him and oh, you can take the ball that early and, and, and, and you can then get all the speed out of the ball and hit the ball that hard and, and still keep it in the court.

And, and, and I felt that was a, you know, a real moment where tennis moved on very, very quite quickly after that to everybody taking the ball early, everybody being able to kind of, you know, recognize the slightly shorter ball and the whole game became much more aggressive very, very quickly. And the ability to take on 2nd serves, you know, which you would see players do it, but they, they weren't that many. So it just wasn't that obvious. And, and, and I feel like Roger that day, because it was such a great match as well, kind of moved it along and, and so, you know, damn it, but kind of took away something that I felt was a real edge in, in, in my coaching.

I, I think now tennis has moved on again and it's the way players defend now. So I think Novak was the 1st and, and Rafa were the first two to defend phenomenally well and with, you know, more pace, but they were still able to get out of jail with, you know, slightly safer balls with a bit of height and, and, and as long as they kept their length and, and, you know, or, or got the height. And in the case of Rafa, they had, they had a little bit of time to defend, but they, they did it so well, which really made other players struggle.

But then you've got the new breed of player that's come through, you know, with the sinners and Alcaraz's and you know, Jack Draper's and, and you know, you know, the the young guys coming through, you know, look at front 2nd. And you know, I I had a little paired with the best under eighteens in the world at the end of last year. And it really, really shocked me how good these young kids were. And, and the biggest thing was in how aggressive they were in defending in general when things got tight, how fearless they were, even though they were often, you know, shooting themselves, they would still go for it.

And and so I would say that the next generation which we start to experience will be levels of player that that just defends so aggressively and then to counteract that. Some of the nuances have to come back. People have to start coming forward a little bit more because if people kind of, you know, defend so well, you can you can be up on a point and if you if you don't cut in and take a volley or something like that immediately on the back foot again. So learning how to, you know, sneak in and then of course, you know, the slice drop shots things to break it up, because if you just pound the ball, you know, that's not going to hurt the, the, the modern player.

They, they're going to defend very, very aggressively off some very big balls. And and so yeah, I see, I see the the all court game played at a faster tempo. So if you were to sort of hone in just on the the real coaching side of that and and almost maybe, yeah, that sort of the game has evolved. How how have people evolved their coaching? You know, how, how do people coach the new game or what's the difference in the styles or the way they is it different the way they communicate? Is it difference in you know be more certain things or?

That I mean that that's a good question. I mean, the there's always a tough period that you go through a player because they need to be comfortable going after their their shots, but you have to have a period where they actually learn to be very competent hitters of the ball. In other words, be able to hit the ball, you know, in and, and it's more about, you know, not missing, but at higher tempos and getting, getting a foundation that's strong enough so that when they do go after the ball, you know, they, they're not going to spray for five years.

So it, it, I think, I think the nuance of coaching now is going to be that mix of, you know, learn how to find the court and then learn how to find the court with more pace and then have little periods where you just go after pace and don't worry about finding the court.

And, and, and keep juggling between those three areas. So that there's, you don't get a player that's fearful of just going after it, but you don't equally don't get a player who thinks that just putting the ball in the court is good enough. And I think that's going to be the talent of, of, of, of the modern coach to instill that freedom to hit, but also do enough of the keeping the ball in the court stuff to be able to hit bigger and bigger with greater and greater freedom and, and, and not miss.

And then, you know, the other complication that comes in is how do you break it up? Because otherwise, you know, and I think I think women's tennis is going a little bit through that period where there's a lot of hit, hit, hit and, and the player, players are now trying to start to learn to, to, to break things up a little bit. But I'd say that on that front, maybe the women's game is just a little bit behind the men's. But I think that's, you know, that's due to probably, you know, one player who's in the spotlight all time, which is Alcaraz, who, you know, will force Sinner to do that as well.

Whereas if, you know, if it was just Sinner and other hitters around, might have been a, a period of just, you know, slugfest. So I think people have, you know, players are very aware and I think they understanding that it it, it's, it's, it's that now big, big power, defending with big power and not being afraid to, to to miss because the rewards are, are big. You know, you know, if if you get a look at 2 second serves and you hit two clean winners, that's a lot of pressure on the server now, you know, love 30 or, you know, suddenly from 15 all to 1540.

So, so, you know, and I think Senator did in that final, you know, 2 backhands bang, bang, you know, and, and you know, suddenly, you know, Alcaraz was in big trouble. So yeah, that's, that's that's how I see it. And I think I think that the coaching job is is, you know, making sure the players don't err too much on on the side of caution, but at the same time, you know, be brave and fearless, but also have the periods where you you got to find the court. Yeah. Do you think generally from your experience, coaches tend to be a bit fearful of, of of players going for it and it's a little bit more based around not missing and and potentially chasing too many results from a younger age which can can feed?

Into that, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, as you know from my coaching, the midcourt ball is something that, you know, I'm very strong that, you know, always said, you know, give the players the freedom out of the midcourt to really go after it. You know, just take one side of the court and say keep banging. I keep banging it going after going after going after it. So, you know, I think I think it's really important that that coaches do give players, you know, that freedom in training and and in matches, you know, allow them to have some freedom, but equal equally be, you know, not be afraid of the conversation that, you know, it's great that you're going after it, but we really need to work hard now to be able to go after and keep the ball in the court a bit more.

So maybe we'll pull the pace back for a little bit and, and, and, you know, get to a really good tempo making balls and then, you know, at the end of every session, OK, let's just go for it again and get that freedom again.

But yeah, it's it's very easy, especially with in juniors where consistency generally is king. And even if a kid, you know, wants to go for and that they don't have enough power to to really make it count. And therefore the rewards aren't quite there for juniors, you know, if they miss a little bit more. But again, it's that fine line, you know, you can't have a kid that just never wins a match because they're just going for everything. You know, I think, yeah, you know, I almost feel like kids are going for it.

They can make the quarterfinals, you know, win a couple of matches, you know, a lot of time, maybe sometimes the semi finals, maybe the ones to watch because you know, often the ones that are winning it are the ones that are just finding the court all the time and can move well. And and and it's quite hard to change that psychology as they get older because they get a success formula, which is just putting the ball in the court wins me matches. And suddenly at 161716 starts to change because those are going for suddenly have the power and start to overpower them and and hit through them.

Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a it it's a tough job with the juniors because they gain. There has to be that that mixture and and try to build into the psyche that you know what being brave is good you. Know. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to miss more just because you go after the ball, because if you, if you got control of the ball and, and, and, and, and the right amount of spin, you can really go after it and, and actually be safer than kind of pushing the ball around. But, you know, it it again, it takes a lot of patience as a coach to to, you know, and that's why I say coaches I think really need to reflect all the time of where they are with a good player and, you know, watching matches and going, is this too cautious or is this a little too wild?

You know, But I would say if if anything, err on the side of losing a few more matches, a bit wild then then then looking for the a lot of wins by getting more and more cautious. Yeah. A slight, so building on that, but maybe a slight detail of the question. But when you, you, you've seen the, how the game is evolving and you're very strong and I haven't worked with you for, for many years, you're very strong in your principles. How do you find the balance of being strong in your principles and what you really believe is, is, is right and needs to be in someone's game, balanced out with an individual's preferences, feelings, flares, and their own their own type of identity as well?

I think personality is is important, but the reality is if you look at the best players in the world, they're all doing pretty much the same thing, but the way they do it shines through their personality. So, you know, Sin and Alcaraz mentality wise are really trying to do a lot of the same things. Yes, Alcaraz maybe has has has, you know, a greater mix in his game than Sinner, but you know, sinners, you know, starting to learn a bit of that and, you know, coming forward a little bit more and and we'll have to keep going that way.

And, and in the same way, Alcaraz is maybe going to have to, you know, keep stepping it up and trying to keep the pace in there so that Sinner doesn't dominate, you know, the, the baseline, you know, completely the way they go about it is, is, is, is a little different because of their, their, their personalities. But I don't think I think players can kid themselves that, you know, I have to have my identity that, you know, is it's just me and and and nobody else is is going to be like this because, you know, what is that identity?

You know, there are, you know, you know, you know, a lefty with a great inside out forehand, big, big inside out forehand and, and into in forehand, you know, say, yeah, I build my game on that strength and, and feel really good about that area of their game and, and, and maybe a really good serve, but they're playing against all core players and they better be good at the other stuff as well. And how many players will have the identity of a forehand and a serve? Plenty, you know, or backhand and, and and and and volleys or whatever the the strengths are.

The you know, it's, it's because the levels have concertinaed so much. There's, there's not that much difference you can be. So then I think it starts to be in, in how you apply yourself in the head. And, and again, you know, you know, the way you, you bring your game, what the, the personality is, what, what allows you to bring out your best game. Is it being very serious and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, focus like that, you know, more maybe the Sinner, right? Or is it by having fun? And you know, I'm not saying the serious people don't have fun.

It's just a different way of expressing that fun. And somebody is maybe more swashbuckling and, and, and smiling about it, or somebody might need to be a bit more angry to get the energy that they need to, to, to do it. Or, you know, super chilled, but very, very dangerous in, in terms of, you know, they look like they're half asleep. But boy, when you play them, they're everywhere and, and, and, and, and, and play the ball very, very well. So I think that's more where where the differences will show in terms of identity is how they go about bringing their game to the court.

And yeah, style is slightly different the way they hit the ball, but again, you know, the, the, the key areas of the of, of the hit and, and, and follow through and that has to be there in order to hit the ball very, very well. So, you know, the, you know, style is more in the backswing than than anything because in the forward swing it's got to be. So a certain part of that swing has to be the same to generate the pace and and get through the ball and stuff like that. I don't know if that really answers your question, but.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's good. I. Think I think people can, you know, I think identity is important in terms of how you feel as a person and how you going to put your game out on the court rather than so much as you know, you're, you'll have your game identity, but just be aware that there are a lot of players out there that will have a similar identity. Yeah, yeah. No, it's good. So third, third question, what experiences have given you your biggest learnings? And from this, what would you you advise younger coaches must do?

I think it's important for young coaches to look outside of tennis a bit and, and in terms of coaching is not just, you know, look to coaches in tennis to learn from and people in tennis to learn from is to actually, you know, maybe read, you know, a business coaching book or you know, a school, you know, coaching book, you know, because you're learning how to communicate. So communication styles and stuff like that. Learning how to communicate differently and in many different ways is how you get your message across.

And and you know, you know, tennis has its way and it has its own sort of environment and culture. And I don't think that coaches look outside the box enough because I think some of the biggest learnings I've had in terms of coaching has been from learning from people outside of tennis and, and reading books that are about communication, reading books, you know, that they're about how the brain works and, and understanding more of the psychology of, of, of teaching than just purely, you know, being able to teach tennis well.

And I think, you know, the, you know, I've long believed that one of the biggest talents that coach has is being able to say the thing, you know, 20 different ways. Where's maybe a young coach only has two ways of saying it. Well, there's a lot of players you're probably going to miss out because they don't quite understand what you're saying. But if you've got 20 ways of saying the same thing, the chances are you, you, you're going to, you know, one of those are going to resonate, you know, with, with the person that you're trying to coach.

So I think, you know, a big part of the toolbox is, is a lot of different ways of, of, of getting the same result out of a player. And I think that a lot of experience is that is picking up the type of personality a player is, you know, picking up the type of personality a person is. And then dovetailing the way you speak to them in a language that they understand and with analogies that will resonate with them, you know, because the same analogy is not going to work with everybody. And so I think that's, that's a big part of the talent of a coach is to go out and seek a lot of different ways to say things and, and to understand basic psychology of, of com of competing and healthy competing and ways to communicate it.

It's interesting, isn't it? Because it's, I think when you're, you're a younger tennis coach, you're obviously learning, you're learning the game, you're learning tennis. That's obviously what your qualifications, your coaching qualifications are based on. But as the more you unpick coaching, the tennis is part of it obviously because that's what you're coaching. But it's actually the the wider aspects of coaching, like you say, the communication, relationships with people. And and and and the way you ask questions.

Yeah. You never, you never, never do any work on that, do you? You, you have to see, I mean outside of outside of tennis, which is, is. I think some of the, the coaching qualifications that I've taken outside of tennis, which have been helped me question more and more effectively and really listen and then ask the awkward question. But the, the, it's the awkward question that's going to help them is, is really important. And, and to really come to grips with the idea that you're a facilitator, You're not, you're not making the player, you are making them think in the right way to be the player that that they can be.

You're, you're asking the questions that's going to take them down the right pathway. But by them making the choices, you're not making the choices for them. So, you know, you can paint the, the picture and, you know, and, and it's really important as we spoke about the vision, say, look, I believe you can do that, but how you get up that mountain, I'm going to help you navigate that by making the right choices for yourself. And I'm going to try and, you know, ask you the, the questions and, and give you the, the, the stuff to reflect upon as to how you can best navigate that path.

And and when you stray too far away, I'm going to hopefully find a way to make you see it for yourself that you need to go a different direction rather than just tell you, hey, you need to get back over there. I'm not saying, you know, occasionally, you know, a good kick up the ass is, is is is is very helpful. But you got to be very careful that you know if you're kicking someone up the ass a lot, the other don't want to do it or your coaching style is is is is poor. Because it's it's something that when it comes, should be a real kick up the ass.

Because it's not usual and doesn't happen very often. Yeah, there we go. 3 questions, Three questions answered though. So thank you as always. So some great stuff. Good, good, good questions. Have you had a chance to reflect on who you'd like me to? Yeah, I think as I touched on, I touched on when I when I spoke, I think one of the the people that had a big impact on me was, was was Baz so Barry Scalo. So yeah, I'd put I'd put a request in to to hear to hear him speak. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you very much, Macca.

It's been a dream. Thank you so much for your time and thank you we we haven't bought the pants off people. Because I, I hope, I hope, yeah, I hope your followers don't, don't drop off after what I've been speaking about. But no, thank you very much. It was, it was great. Take care. Pleasure, Thanks for having me. Thanks for watching Locker Room Power with David Samuel. If you enjoyed the episode, hit subscribe and leave a comment on your favorite platform. See you in the next one.

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